Five Ways That Podcasters Are Their Own Worst Enemy

Too many podcasts that are too long with too many ads, with too many extremist podcasts, and too many copycats.

Podcasters of all shapes and sizes want to succeed. Some want to command a Joe Rogan-size audience, while others just want to engage their circle of friends. Still others wish to connect with others who share their interests, such as sewing, basketball, romcoms, or music.

This article celebrates podcasting by examining the flaws that exist, many of which are exacerbated by podcasters who have a vested interest in the success of this medium.

Humans are capable of great acts of kindness, but they are also perfectly capable of self-destructive behavior. History has countless examples of flawed humans, dysfunctional nations, and unsustainable civilizations.

Today, I'm concentrating on podcasters. Therefore, I give you "Five Ways That Podcasters Are Their Own Worst Enemy."

1 - Podcasters having multiple podcasts

Talk to indie podcasters for any length of time, and you'll discover that so many of them have multiple podcasts. One woman I know has "seven" podcasts! Why? I'll let her explain: "Well, I need a different podcast for different audiences. I have two interview podcasts. One for friends and one for everybody…"

This woman is not alone in her podcast collection fetish.

You may be saying, "Frank, stop being such a crank. Who cares if people have multiple podcasts?"

My answer to that question is: "Listeners care because podcast discoverability is already a major issue without more podcasts tossed into the pool. Other podcasters care because every new podcast takes a slice of the pie from existing podcasts. The podcast marketplace cares because the podcast universe is not expanding fast enough to incorporate all these extra podcasts from existing podcasters."

Let's take a moment to examine the most recent Podcast Landscape 2024 report. Kudos to Sounds Profitable for producing such an eye-opening report.

According to the report, currently, 26% of Americans 18+ have never consumed a podcast, down from 28% last year. When the report asked why people haven't consumed a podcast, here are the top reasons:

The Unreachables (11%): These are difficult to reach due to economic reasons, such as not having a device to play podcasts or lacking reliable internet access.

The Resistors (59%): They may have heard of podcasts but have perceptions that prevent them from listening. Reasons include preferring video, reading, or simply not understanding the benefits of podcasts. They aren't unreachable, but their habits may be more firmly entrenched (though a big part of that is their strong preference for video over spoken word audio, which, as we have seen in recent years, is less a barrier to podcasting than ever before).

The Persuadables (30%): This group, about 8% of the US population 18+ or 20 million people, represents the next potential audience tier. Like the Resisters, they prefer video, but are more open to considering podcasting AND show signs that their existing media diet might have a few holes that podcasts could fill admirably.

The Persuadables tend to be older than the general US population (48% are 55+) and overwhelmingly female (62%). 

Their reasons for not consuming podcasts include: Not enough free time

Not knowing how to listen

Not understanding the benefits

Not finding interesting content

Perception that podcasts cost money

The report indicates that the growth of podcast listeners can be better defined in 2024 as reliably constant. So the pie is growing, but not enough to accommodate the new podcasters - indie and network - and the existing podcasters who feel that one podcast is not enough.

This mindset is common among indie podcasters who are trying various strategies to monetize their podcasting investment. Let's compare this multiple podcast strategy to betting on a horse race. You can place a bet to win money if the horse finishes first, second, or third, which is called across-the-board betting. The problem with this bet is that there are numerous scenarios where you can win money, yet those winnings don't cover your original bet.

There is an indie podcaster who has four TV rewatch podcasts. Now, rewatch podcasts are a smart bet, especially for an indie podcaster, because you already have a built-in audience - fans of the TV show.

The problem here is that TV rewatch podcasts have exploded in number. Here's my personal anecdote. I listen to The Psychologists Are In Psych rewatch podcast and the Off Duty NCIS rewatch podcast, as well as two Star Trek rewatch podcasts. Recently, a new Suits rewatch podcast began called Sidebar with Patrick J. Adams and Sarah Rafferty from the TV show. I loved this show when it was on the USA Network and when it appeared on Netflix several years ago. However, I only have a limited amount of time to listen to podcasts.

What are my options? Try to squeeze in yet another podcast? Drop an existing podcast to listen to this new one? Cut back on other activities such as TV, reading, sports, and enjoying a light-bodied Pinot Noir with fresh, floral and earthy aromas?

Just because it's easier to make a podcast than a TV show or movie does not mean you should create and distribute eight of them.

Networks like Spotify and iHeart are equally culpable. How many celebrity podcasts can we endure where the podcast is described as an intersection of sports, race, gender, sexuality, and culture? Then, the celebrity creates a miniseries on a new nail polish color they've created called narcissistic pink. 

These networks, especially Wondery, release true-crime podcasts as if they're skeet shooting. PULL. Another true-crime podcast is born?

Remember the woman from the 1990s, Susan Powter? Her motto applies here: "Stop The Insanity."

Podcasting does need a constant infusion of fresh blood in the form of bold, innovative content and approaches, but the industry can't bleed to death because every indie podcaster and podcast network thinks that the solution to podcasting's myriad issues is to develop and release more podcasts like a vending machine that's free to use. Eventually, the machine will be empty.

2- Podcasters increasing the length of their podcasts

People aren't the only ones with an obesity problem. Podcasts have become bloated messes with run times that have increased 22 percent in the last five years.

Like point # 1 (Podcasters having multiple podcasts), longer podcasts mean that listeners have less time to listen to other podcasts. So, if your primary podcast runs two hours instead of 45 minutes, then many listeners will save time by cutting back on your other podcasts.

I've read several interview podcast hosts exclaim that they don't edit their podcasts. Therefore, interviews have tended to expand to 90 minutes and sometimes exceed two hours. Unless you're James Cridland from Podnews, astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson, or journalist John Dickerson, I'm out after about 45 minutes.

Mike Carruthers is the host of Something You Should Know. He's done well over 1,000 episodes with a runtime of about 50 minutes.

Here's Carruthers in an interview I did with him a few years ago. "I try to assume the mindset of the listener. And in my view, a listener wants every interview to get interesting - FAST. It would be easy to let people talk in the beginning about how they got interested in the topic or what their background is. But I don't think that's what an audience wants to hear first. They want to hear why this is interesting to them and why they should be listening."

Carruthers goes on, "That's why I think editing is so important. I've done interviews where the first several minutes are edited out because the guest was just warming up. They didn't get interesting until six or seven minutes into the interview. So in the show, that's where the interview starts."

Carruthers is a true professional. He's listener-focused, not guest-focused. Moreover, he's respectful of the listener's time constraints during an average day.

Two of the best network interview podcasts—The Daily and Today, Explained—average about 25 minutes an episode. They're short and sensational!

I know there are many indie and network podcasters who try to emulate Joe Rogan and then wrongly equate a long runtime with intellectual heft.

I work from home, but when I commuted, I averaged an hour each way. That's two hours of podcast time. I could either listen to Short Wave, Behind The Song, Immaterial, and Nutrition Diva on my morning drive and then Salad With A Side Of Fries, Surfing Corporate, and Why Wars Happened on my evening drive. Or just listen to one two-hour podcast?

How about Arielle And Ned's Daily Tips… show? It offers valuable life hacks in about a minute or so.

Returning to the 2024 Podcast Landscape Report, older Americans are the age group least likely to listen to podcasts. Therefore, people who are retired and theoretically have the most time to listen to podcasts DON'T. Everybody else, whose lives always crash into time pressures, are the target audience for podcasts.

Folks, it's a zero-sum game. Sometimes, less is more.

3- Podcasters monetizing with too many ads

Remember when podcasts had just a few ads, usually Audible? The other day, I listened to a Pushkin podcast where ads made up about 33 percent of the entire runtime. On NPR's Life Kit, it took until the fifth minute for the content to begin.

Remember what happened to TV broadcast networks when commercial time increased by almost 38 percent in the last 25 years? Viewers fled to paid streaming channels with no ads.

Will excessive ads drive away podcast listeners? 

To be clear, podcast monetization is difficult, especially for indie podcasters. There are thousands of indie podcasters with superior-quality shows who struggle to make enough money to break even. Sadly, becoming a full-time podcaster is a pipe dream for far too many indie podcasters who deserve more recognition.

Compared to the struggle for monetization by indie podcasters, monetization for networks like Spotify and iHeart is a frictionless process. These networks benefit from size and scale and fixed costs spread across an entire podcast network instead of indie podcasts.

In addition to "Ad-pocalyse," programmatic ads often begin with no notice or pause in content, often in the middle of a podcast host's sentence, and end suddenly, with the host now completing the severed sentence. These ads disrupt the flow of the content and often don't even relate to the interests of the listener base. For example, why would college students be interested in purchasing a walker? It happened.

Ads for indie podcasts should relate to the content of the show. For example, a terrific show like Getting Personal With Plant Medicine runs ads linked to its content - herbalists, supplements, etc.

Programmatic ads are a technology solution that can save time and expense. Yet, allowing such ads to disrupt the flow of content seems counterproductive. I heard one indie psychology podcast where the guest, a psychologist, was about to summarize his key points when an ad for insurance cut her off in mid-sentence.

Studies show that listeners view host-read ads as more credible and that they do not disrupt the flow of the content.

But even host-read ads can be disruptive if they are inserted every few minutes. Even 99% Invisible, a long-time favorite of mine, is laden with ads. When I announced the winners of the 2024 Ear Worthy Independent Podcast Awards (AKA The Earlobes), one of the criteria used by the panel was the appropriate use of ads.

Finally, podcast networks should ensure they do not chase away listeners with excessive ads. Indie podcasters need a streamlined process to take advantage of ad revenue to ensure greater financial stability for those thousands of podcasters.

4- Podcasters engaging in extremism

I understand that in today's fact-free, conspiracy-laden society, extremism may be in the eye of the beholder. The current definition of extremism - ideas or actions that are extreme and not normal, reasonable, or acceptable to most people - is no longer applicable because we have people who believe that legal immigrants are eating pets, and the government creates hurricanes to damage a specific group.

I think extremist content in podcasts focuses on denigrating, hating, and threatening violence toward other groups. As I searched for the most extremist podcasts, I found far too many that advocate "killing Democrats, executing politicians, jailing gay people, keeping only U.S.-born citizens in the country, reversing transgender surgeries, taking away women's rights, ignoring centuries of racist policies, and forcing the religion of some on all of us."

We still have more than a few podcasts that discuss the COVID vaccine as mind control and chips implanted in citizens via pasteurized milk. That's a new one for me. There's even a podcast that states that Disney Plus is using subliminal seduction to turn children gay. If that's true, is Apple TV trying to use the same technique to trick us into buying the latest iPhone model? How about Prime Video? "You are getting sleepy. When I snap my fingers, you will awaken and buy only from Amazon. Cancel your Walmart subscription immediately."

I love podcasting, and I don't want it to become a trash heap of hate, extremism, and advocacy for violence. We have X and numerous black holes in social media dark alleys for all that.

Numerous studies reveal that listeners trust podcasts and podcast hosts in particular. That's a responsibility we shouldn't squander by allowing Alex Jones wannabes and soundalikes to take over with their false flag nonsense and the message that "everybody but me is out to get you. You can trust me, so please buy this tiger spleen to cure your ED."

5- Podcasters copycatting topics, genres, and styles.

First, are podcasters copycatting the true-crime genre to the point that podcasting is "typecast" as a true-crime channel like the ID Channel, Oxygen, and the True Crime Network? 

There are so many true-crime podcasts that other media have crafted podcast stereotypes of the true-crime podcaster, who's obsessed over sensationalizing a crime for ratings. It's not a flattering portrayal. Check out season two of The Lincoln Lawyer on Netflix.

How about Based On A True Story on Peacock, about a married couple who start a podcast while a serial killer is on the loose in Los Angeles? The Dateline podcast is one of the most popular shows in the industry.

It isn't just podcast networks like Spotify, IHeart, and Wondery that flood the zone with true-crime content. Indie podcasters launch true-crime podcasts daily, often covering the same cases that are being investigated by existing true-crime shows. In fact, there are so many true-crime shows that it's the one podcast genre that has been afflicted with numerous charges of plagiarism. 

In the week after Labor Day, indie podcasters started at least 50 true-crime podcasts. Even with the insatiable appetite for true-crime shows, at some point, these shows will crowd out other valuable content and dilute the listenership of other ear-worthy true-crime shows like The Murder Sheet.

Second, celebrity interview podcasts are like sequels to movie studios. The risk is low, and the rewards are generous. Every week, a podcast network announces a celebrity podcast. Are all of them bad? Absolutely not. Julia Louis Dreyfuss, Conan O'Brien, Dax Shepard, and the Smartless guys (Arnett, Bateman, Hayes) are superb shows - funny, incisive, and thought-provoking.

Name a celebrity, and chances are, they have a podcast. Now, even Reality TV pseudo-celebrities invade podcasting.

Will podcasting evolve into a content universe where most of the shows are either true-crime or celebrity shows?

Meanwhile, indie podcasters continue to innovate with shows that transcend, redefine, invigorate, and reshape genres.

For example, Another F*cking Horror Podcast perfectly blends comedy, horror, and true crime. It's a masterpiece of genre merging.

Nerdpreneur is a classic business podcast that features fun conversations with people who are turning their weird passions into successful businesses. It blends comedy with business acumen and nerd culture.

6 Degrees Of Cats isn't just another pet podcast. Instead, the show blends history, science, and culture into a passion for felines.

How about Salad With A Side Of Fries? It's unlike other nutrition and wellness shows. As host Jenn Trepeck says, "We decipher between all the 'diets' out there. You know what to do, but it isn't working. We talk wellness and weight loss for real life because most of us are going to drink, eat out, skip the grocery store, and who wants a life without fries or dessert?" No 500 pushups here or avoiding carbs for life on this podcast.

The Life Shift podcast combines life lessons, therapy, candid conversations, trauma treatment, inspirational stories, and self-improvement into a show that can make listeners laugh, cry, and assess their lives through the lens of its guests.

There's a new podcast called Someone's In Here that is about poop. That's awesome.

It's a given that podcast networks will continue to pump out shows with hackneyed themes and familiar tropes. Even these corporate networks occasionally score winners. For example, iHeart, which often tosses out vacuous celebrity shows and vapid true-crime shows, can also release ear-worthy shows like Started from the Bottom, Behind the Barrier: Voices from the Negro Leagues, We the Unhoused, and Questlove Supreme.

Life is hard for indie podcasters. Many begin podcasts because of a topic that energizes them or because they love communicating with people via podcasting. 

The dream of monetization that enables them to do this full-time eludes many of the most worthy - like Surfing Corporate - and sometimes rewards the lucky.

Podcast networks are going to do what they're going to do. Their eyes are always on stock price, balance sheets, and shareholder value. However, these networks have definitely raised the profile of podcasting and elevated its position in the media world. It remains to be seen if they kill the proverbial golden goose by "flooding the zone with shows, turning shows into a constant stream of ads interrupted by a few minutes by content, giving voice to extremist content, supersizing podcast runtimes, and producing shows that use a banal formula and overused template instead of creative dynamism. We need more shows like The White Vault, Immaterial, Immigrantly, and Play On Shakespeare.

Indie podcasters, who make up the bulk of podcasts in the industry, still wield little power despite their numerical superiority. For this group, they should resist the temptation to release multiple podcasts just because they can. Indiscriminate ads are not a way to monetize your podcast; dynamic content is. Finally, respect the listener and your fellow podcasters, and edit your podcasts. I listened to one show the other day where a couple interviewed a guest for three hours! After 45 minutes, I learned that he likes sausage and American-made cars. I took a shot that I'd miss other revelations and switched to Why Wars Happened, 15 densely-packed minutes about the events that led up to the American Revolution.

I will end with a quote from the 2007 TV show Heroes. In that show, a character named Hiro proclaims, "Save the cheerleader, save the world."

A similar anthem can be applied to podcasting. "Save the indie podcaster, save podcasting."