How Narrative Structure Can Attract More Listeners

How to balance the needs of existing listeners against those of new listeners.

For indie podcasters, capturing and maintaining the most listeners is a key indicator of success. First, listeners have to find that indie podcast. That step alone transforms the degree of difficulty into a math problem of improbability. 

Second, indie podcasters have to hang onto to the listeners who sample their show. The abandon rate here is exceedingly high. 

This second reason -- listener retention -- is the focus of this article.

Listeners can drop into a podcast at any time in the podcast's lifecycle. TV shows know this, which is why they often have show recaps to help those new listeners. Podcasts often don't do this, largely because they don't have to unless, of course, it's a true-crime podcast or serialized podcast such as Stolen: The Search For Jermain. 

Let's examine several reasons why podcasts do not retain the listeners who sample the show.

# 1: Too much happy banter that only loyal listeners will care about.
I recently listened to a sports podcast for the first time, which had two men and one woman as co-hosts. It has been around for several years, so I thought I'd give it a chance. After listening to two episodes, I'm convinced this podcast doesn't want or need new listeners. 

Why? First, it took eight minutes to address their first sports topic, which was about Steph Curry. In those eight minutes, the co-hosts talked about their weekend activities with sentences such as:

 "And you know what I've said before about brewery tours." The new listener doesn't.

"We both know how you feel about talking during the football game." The new listener doesn't know this, either.

"I have to tell you what my cat did this weekend." I love cats. I have one named Moogie. But I don't know you and I want to hear about Curry and your other topics -- NFL rankings, Ovechkin, and the Australian Open predictions.

As a podcaster, trying to satisfy your current audience and attract a new audience means being measured is paramount. Sure, you want the audience to get to know you with these personal anecdotes, but you don't include anything that requires prior knowledge. Yes, you want a level of happy banter, especially on a sports podcast where I think it's mandated, but when the pitter-patter of happy talk makes up 20 percent of your podcast, you may want to trim it down.   

An indie podcast like Double Take handles this well. The co-hosts, Jess and Jenni, do a little happy banter at the beginning that lasts no more than a minute, and often, they offer context to their remarks. These women know that listeners came for the review of streaming shows, and they deliver.

Matt Gilhooly of The Life Shift podcast is similarly concise at the show's beginning. This superb indie podcast presents candid conversations with people about the pivotal moments that changed their lives forever. Matt knows that listeners are downloading or streaming to hear the stories of his guests—their trauma and their heroic journey of overcoming that trauma.

 # 2: Not explaining what your podcast is about in the show's beginning

Let me use Don't Drink The Milk as an example of what to do. In its October 23 episode, the show's host, Rachel Stewart, begins with how "the missionary position" is pronounced in several languages. Then, she explains the topic, gives a trigger warning, and then says, "This is Don't Drink The Milk about the curious history of things."

Ta-Da. Right there, Stewart has teased the episode's topic and told us what the podcast is about. Now, if you are a loyal listener, you've heard this intro multiple times and probably no longer pay attention. However, to that first-time listener, that brief explanation of what the podcast is about is monetization gold. 

It's baked into podcasting's structure that every show and episode begins with intro music unless it's a horror podcast in which a werewolf is howling. In every show and every episode, a brief description of the podcast should be a "must-have."

An interview show like CooperTalk uses this phrase as its intro: Steve's opening line of every episode: "I'm Steve Cooper, and I'm only as hip as my guests. " This is the kind of signature line many podcasters would die for.

Salad With A Side Of Fries does this perfectly. In a recent episode with guest Sarah Thomas, host Jenn Trepeck orchestrates the perfect beginning. First, she starts with a teaser from her guest about muscle mass loss as we age, then appropriately bouncy intro music plays as Trepeck says, "Welcome to Salad With A Side Of Fries, I'm your host, Jenn Trepeck,  talking wellness and weight loss for real life."

Podcasts like Trashy Divorces and What A Creep also do a nice job of explaining their entire premise upfront. Both shows have a simple, self-explanatory premise, yet they take the time to explain it in every episode. Why? To attract and retain new listeners.

For every podcast that explains its objective or raison d'être in its opening so that new listeners can latch on to the show, there are hundreds of indie podcasts (and good ones at that) that simply begin the show as if you, a new listener, know about the show's premise, the people (co-hosts) speaking, and why you should care about their latest misadventures with potty training their new Goldendoodle. 

Comedy, movie, and sports podcasts are excellent at throwing numerous voices at listeners with no name attribution and then spending precious minutes on inside jokes that only established listeners will understand and possibly laugh at. 

Do I care if Skip lost all his money on his DraftKings NFL bets last weekend? No, because, as a new listener, I don't even know who Skip is.

 # 3: Use Teasers to generate interest and Segments to organize the episode

 Consider Multispective, which is a podcast that shares deeply personal stories of triumph through tribulations. On the show, host Jennica Sadhwani plays a clip to hook the audience on this current episode, then she explains the show's premise, and then the emotive intro music plays.

The teaser acts as a podcaster's honey for its busy bee listeners. A strong teaser will induce listeners to react with: "I have to listen to this episode."

In my previous example, Salad With A Side Of Fries begins with a teaser, and it's a good one about losing muscle mass. I do not want to be a "flabby Frank," so I listened to the entire episode, and I'm sure plenty of others will and did. 

Segments act as an organizing device. On the September 23rd episode of Podcast Workflows, host Joe Casabona discussed the utility of segments in podcast episodes. You can listen to that episode here.

In the episode, Joe observes: "To create a more engaging show, think about incorporating segments. Just like how late-night shows have defined parts, segmenting your podcast can make it more consumable and structured. You can dedicate parts of your episode to different topics or formats, such as opening monologues, interviews, and specific segments tailored to your audience’s interests."
Have you listened to an interview podcast that ran for more than one hour? By including segments, interview podcasters can offer listeners a map to the interview. Before a midroll ad or just as a segue, a host can forecast to listeners what topic they'll be discussing in the next part of the interview.

Joe adds: "If you’re worried that solo episodes might become stale, develop a clear structure. For instance, discuss a main topic, then showcase an interesting tool related to that topic, and finish with an automation tip. This keeps the solo content engaging and valuable."

In short, teasers draw in listeners, while segments keep listeners grounded in the structure of the show.

 # 4 Comprehensive and well-written show notes can spark interest

 Everyone knows what a Joe Rogan podcast will offer. The episodes of Call Her Daddy typically include details about host Cooper's personal life, numerous sentences that include the word F**k somewhere in the episode, or a celebrity oversharing about their privileged life.

The point is that these podcasts are so well-known that you know what to expect. There's no need to expend resources to attract new listeners. Social media, word of mouth, and the culture at large do that job for them. 

Most indie podcasts have to balance the needs of their loyal audience with the demand to attract new listeners. There are some indie podcasts that manage those two often competing goals with guile and skill, while others seem to pray that new listeners will somehow find them among the tens of thousands of podcasts available.

The written show notes can act as a powerful attractant for new listeners. Consider the show notes on Apple podcasts for The Murder Sheet:

"The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. Its first season on restaurant related homicides, and features miniseries on the Burger Chef murders. If you're looking for thoughtful, in-depth coverage of lesser-known crimes, this is the true crime podcast for you."

It's specific and detailed enough that new listeners browsing for a new true-crime podcast would stop and consider it. By contrast, here are the show notes from an unnamed true-crime podcast.

"A true-crime podcast for you." That's it. No detail other than it's about true crime. And, the podcaster thinks it's for you. Hmmm.

A podcast trailer acts like a coming attraction for a movie or a TV commercial highlighting a TV show. However, a trailer is either a once in a podcast lifetime device, or, better yet, a once a season or introducing a miniseries device.

Show notes are like a podcaster's roadside billboard. They're always there. When they're written to entice, engage, or even enrage, they can be a powerful tool for listener retention and organic audience growth.

Here are the show notes to an outstanding new indie podcast, Why Wars Happened -- Season One, episode 21.

"This episode dives deep into the events leading up to Bacon's Rebellion, a pivotal moment in Virginia's history. We explore the escalating tensions between Virginia colonists and the Susquehannock tribe, detailing the attacks, Governor Berkeley's strange decisions on how to respond to the attacks, and the colonies' desperate cries for protection. This episode also shows how Nathaniel Bacon, rose to become a rebel leader against the governor's inaction, setting the stage for a much larger conflict. Tune in to understand the complexities and motivations behind one of America’s early rebellions."

Let's assess what host Emily Ross has accomplished here. First, she has not forgotten to announce the basic premise of the podcast, which she does in the last sentence. Second, the show notes are not a Wikipedia entry. They're concise and she uses strong words to attract listeners. Words like: pivotal, tensions, desperate cries, rebel leader, larger conflict, rebellions."

For Ross, it doesn't matter that her podcast is 21 episodes deep into the first season. She's not given up the fight to attract new listeners, even this far into the show's freshman season.  

In the Podcasting Tech podcast, host Mathew Passy writes a flawless first sentence to his show notes. "Have you ever wondered if your podcast could be more than a passion project—could it actually become a profitable business?

Passy asks a question that is of the utmost importance to all podcasters. It's a first-class technique for generating interest and attracting listeners to the show.

There are now several methods for enabling AI to write show notes for a podcast. While a computer program can certainly develop serviceable show notes for any podcast, I don't think it can top Passy's existential question. 

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  One of the best podcasts at hooking new listeners while entertaining established listeners is Nerdpreneur. Here are Frank Bailey and Chris Saunders's goals: "At Nerdpreneur we have fun conversations with people turning their weird passion into a successful business! We interview entrepreneurs from around the world to discover the hacks, tools, and mindsets that turn nerd passion into full-time income."  

The Nerdpeneur podcast begins with a clip from the nerdy entrepreneur being featured and interviewed on the episode. Then, in a stroke of brilliance and musical and lyrical creativity, the intro music is a cool hip-hop song that explains the objective of the podcast.   

Developing a successful indie podcast often seems like a Sisyphean task. After the sweat of creating the podcast, bringing it to life, and distributing it, the indie podcaster now must enter the life-or-death arena of people discovering their podcast. If that happens, then indie podcasters must attract new listeners while keeping their initial audience. That's like juggling bowling balls while riding a motor scooter around the Arc De Triomphe in Paris. 

The tools mentioned in this article may be beneficial in aiding and abetting those podcasting goals. If they do not, please feel free to message me: "You're full of s**t." The staff will take that under advisement.